[00:17] Meg: Hi. Welcome to Desperately Seeking the 80s: New York Edition. I am Meg.

[00:21] Jessica: And I am Jessica. And this is a podcast that talks about our era of growing up, the 1980s

[00:29] Meg: in New York City.

[00:31] Jessica: Right. Which is just where we also still live.

[00:32] Meg: Yes and where we are very good friends

[00:34] Jessica: indeed.

[00:35] Meg: I'm going to do ripped from the headlines

[00:36] Jessica: and I cover pop culture. Let's go.

[00:42] Meg: Okay, Jessica.

[00:42] Jessica: I'm so excited to know what you're going to talk about.

[00:48] Meg: I think you might know this story already, but I think this is going to be a really cool refresher course. It certainly was for me when I was researching it.

[00:57] Jessica: Okay, well, let me ask you a question.

[00:59] Meg: Sure.

[00:59] Jessica: Here's our little trivia questions before our segments. Why do you love this story? Why did you choose this story?

[01:08] Meg: This is one of the first stories that I knew I wanted to tell. I don't remember so much what I thought about it at the time, except that I was wrong, and that will come up as I tell the story.

[01:21] Jessica: Okay, so it's that really you had a preconceived notion, and then you realized something.

[01:27] Meg: Yeah. You live and you learn, and you realize that maybe the tabloids weren't telling you the complete truth.

[01:34] Jessica: Okay. What, Surprise! We were kids.

[01:39] Meg: Well I mean, I think I was a little naive!

[01:41] Jessica: What did we know?

[01:43] Meg: Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question to sort of get you in the mood.

[01:47] Jessica: Get me loosened up?

[01:49] Meg: I'm going to ask you, when did you first start riding the subway in New York City?

[01:54] Jessica: Well, I was prohibited from riding the subway.

[01:58] Meg: You took the bus to school?

[01:59] Jessica: I took the bus, and I took taxis if there was some really pressing need or like, going to the airport.

[02:08] Meg: But, I mean, taxis were affordable, and there were tons of them.

[02:14] Jessica: Exactly, affordable big key. And the subways were so dangerous, and everyone knew that, that I don't think I even took the subway until, like, my junior year of high school.

[02:25] Meg: Yeah, I'm the same. I started taking the subway because I had a job down on McDougal Street, and there was really no way to get down there in a timely fashion unless I took the subway. But I was taking it, like, in the morning and then at noon to go home. So it didn't feel too dangerous. But it was definitely dangerous.

[02:44] Jessica: No, it was scary. And even in the 90s, when I was taking it regularly, every day was a strategy about how to get to a seat in the car or a particular car on the subway train.

[02:59] Meg: Just got lost on the subway. So often, I would end up in outer boroughs and go, how did this happen?

[03:04] Jessica: Are you serious?

[03:06] Meg: All the time. I was the worst reader of maps. That's a story for another day.

[03:11] Jessica: I was so afraid of that happening to me. That I would know what I was doing, and I'd get on the subway, and then I'd turn to the person closest to me who didn't look like a raving lunatic and be like, “Hi, is this going to Astor place?” “Hi. Yeah. Is this okay? Just checking.” 5 seconds later “so this is Astor place, right?” And they're like, oh, my God, get this ridiculous creature away from me. So, yeah, okay. That is my answer to you.

[03:41] Meg: Okay. So it will not surprise you that my story today deals with the New York City subway and a really big event that happened on the subway in 1984. You ready?

[03:53] Jessica: As ever.

[03:54] Meg: All right. In the afternoon of Saturday, December 22, 1984, Barry Allen, Troy Canty, Darrell Cabey, and James Ramseur, four teenagers who lived in the Bronx, boarded a downtown two train headed for Manhattan. At the 14th street station, Bernie Goetz entered the car where the teens and 20 other passengers were seated. Now, I want you to try and picture it as I tell the story, okay?

[04:22] Jessica: Yes.

[04:23] Meg: Goetz took a seat on the long bench across from the door. Two of the teens were across the aisle from him, and two were seated to the right of him. According to Goetz. Canty asked him, “how are you doing?” Goetz responded “fine.” Then Goetz said, the group gave signals to each other, and Canty and Allen rose from their seats and moved over to the left of Goetz, blocking him off from the other passengers in the car.

[04:52] Jessica: So they were to the left of him and to the right of him?

[04:55] Meg: Well, at this point, they were to the right of him, and now they're to the left of him. So the point being that the other passengers couldn't see what actually occurred. They were not witnesses. Canty then said, “Give me $5.” Goetz pulled a handgun and fired five shots at the four, wounding all of them. The terrified passengers ran to the other end and out of the car, leaving behind two women who had been closest to the shooting, frozen in fear. Goetz talked to them to make sure that they were not injured.

[05:31] Jessica: Oh, how civil.

[05:33] Meg: He was then approached by the conductor of the train, and Goetz told the conductor, “They tried to rob me and I shot them.” The conductor asked whether Goetz was a police officer. Goetz replied, “No,” and refused to hand over his gun. Then he jumped to the tracks and ran south through the tunnel to the Chambers Street station, where he exited the tunnel. He went home, and that's quite a while.

[05:57] Jessica: So he was at the 14th street? Yeah. He ran from 14th street to Chambers in the dark?

[06:02] Meg: on the tracks. That’s bold.

[06:05] Jessica: Very.

[06:09] Meg: He went home to gather some belongings, then rented a car and drove north to Bennington, Vermont, where he burned his blue jacket and dismantled the revolver, scattering the pieces in the woods north of town. He drove around New England for several days, registering at motels under various names and paying in cash. In the first few days after the shooting, the media named the unknown shooter the subway vigilante. Many called him a hero for defending himself against attackers who ran a muck in the subways. In 1984, New York City was called the murder capital of America, and the dark, under police subway system was the most dangerous part of the city. Imagine no transit cops, no cameras, poor upkeep, low light. It was where you went to get mugged. The Guardian Angels, a volunteer patrol group of mostly black and Hispanic teenagers wearing red berets started by Curtis Sliwa, who recently ran for mayor of our great city and incidentally, shares his Upper West Side apartment with 16 rescue cats

[07:17] Jessica: because he is normal.

[07:27] Meg: Okay, so this is, Curtis Sliwa. Who do you think Curtis Sliwa supported in this? The white guy who had a gun or the four black teenagers who'd been shot?

[07:40] Jessica: Well, I know the answer to that because I know all about The Guardian Angels and how they were sort of creating a brand for themselves as being sort of counterintuitive and

[07:54] Meg: Also protecting people from subway crime because the police weren't doing their job.

[07:58] Jessica: That was the correct I know that they were pro Bernie.

[08:01] Meg: Yes. They fully supported the shooter. We don't know who the shooter is yet. And they demanded Mayor Koch grant him immunity. According to Sliwa, “Subway hooligans intimidate and eye fornicate innocent passengers and citizens have every right to fight back.” We have to

[08;25] Jessica: He actually said ‘eye fornicate’?

[08:27] Meg: He said ‘eye fornicate’

[08:29] what a bizarre, like, non-sequitur

[08:32] Meg: And now I want. Well, he's saying that they’re saying fuck you with their eyes. I think it's brilliant.

[08:39] Jessica: Okay, say it again.

[08:40] Meg: eye fornicate

[08:41] Jessica: No, no, no the whole thing. You idiot.

[08:48] Meg: That's it. That's the thing that he said.

[08:49] Jessica: He said they ‘something, something.’

[08:51] Meg: Well, the thing in quote, he's saying “subway hooligans intimidate and eye fornicate.”

[08:56] Jessica: Okay, so he's doing, like, a rhyming thing. Who was OJ's lawyer? Okay, sorry. Whatever. Okay, fine. I'm losing the thread. Go ahead.

[09:10] Meg: The NRA at that time was a small organization for game hunters. But in the wake of the shooting, they saw an opportunity to promote gun ownership for self defense. It hadn't really been about that before, though, and the subway vigilante became the poster boy for the NRA and was instrumental in propelling the NRA to political power. So this is the beginning of an era.

[09:33] Jessica: Fascinating. I wonder if the people who one would imagine are the major NRA supporters right now would think that a New York subway riding Jewish guy was the one who actually gave them

[09:50] Meg: he wasn't Jewish.

[09:52] Jessica: Bernie Goetz?

[09:53] Meg: He's not Jewish.

[09:54] Jessica: He wasn't?

[09:54] Meg: No.

[09:55] Jessica: All this time? I thought he was Jewish.

[09:59] Meg: No, he’s not jewish. I actually looked it up because I knew that that was a possibility. And he, in fact, is not Jewish. Anywho, on December 31st, a week and a half after the shooting, Goetz walked into the police headquarters in Concord, New Hampshire, and turned himself in. He waived his rights to an attorney and gave a two hour videotaped interview. That is bizarre. Highly recommend it. YouTube it. He was at times monotone and at other times really hysterical. It's very interesting to watch. He's an animated person. Now, Bernie was given a hero's welcome by many back in New York City. People were sick and tired of being scared. And this is the part that I remember that he, you know, was standing up for the little guy. Right?

[10:52] Jessica: Yes. I recall that.

[10:53] Meg: There were bumper stickers being sold. “Ride with Bernie. He gets them.” And I tried to find them on ebay. That would be fun. Burnie was useful for everyone who had a mission the NRA, the Guardian Angels, and Reverend Al Sharpton. But then excerpts of his videoed confession were leaked, and the climate changed. He was quoted as saying, “My intention was to murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible.” Later in the tape, Goetz said, “If I had more bullets, I would have shot them all again and again. My problem was I ran out of bullets.”

[11:39] Jessica: Oof..

[11:41] Meg: Doesn't really sound like self defense.

[11:43] Jessica: No.

[11:44] Meg: After wounding all four teens, he said he approached Darrell Cabey, who was slumped over and said, “You seem to be doing all right. Here's another” and fired the fifth shot point blank in his back. He added, “I was gonna gouge one of the guys eyes out with my keys afterwards,” but said he stopped when he saw the fear in his eyes. So, Bernie's halo fell from his head. In the meantime, Darrell Cabey, the fourth teen to be shot, was paralyzed, brain damaged, and remained in a coma at St. Vincent's Hospital. So now the city is divided. Many saw the shooting as being racially charged, bemoaning the promotion of white vigilantism and citing how little black lives were valued, Al Sharpton, as I mentioned before, organized a volunteer group with yellow baseball hats called the DJ Safety Patrol to protect black subway passengers. So, now you've got Curtis Sliwa with his Guardian Angels and Al Sharpton with his DJ Safety Patrol. In the meantime, an investigation by the office of US. Attorney Rudolph Giuliani. Yeah, I'm so bummed that he slips himself into some of these stories because I have no interest in thinking about him, but here he is.

[13:10] Jessica: Doesn’t he make you (vomit sounds)

[13:15] Meg: Yes, exactly. Uh huh. Okay, so Rudolph Giuliani determined that the impetus for the shooting had been fear not race. Okay, how the hell do you know that, Rudy? In 1987, Goetz was tried before a Manhattan jury of ten white people and two black people, of whom six had been victims of street crime. He was acquitted of the attempted murder and first degree assault charges and convicted of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree, which he had gotten from Florida illegally, by the way. He was sentenced to one year in jail, one year's psychiatric treatment. Just one?

[13:59] Jessica: Just the one.

[14:01] Meg: Five years probation, 200 hours community service, and a $5,000 fine. But in the 1996 civil trial brought by Cabey's family, Goetz was portrayed as a racist aggressor, and now a lot of other stuff has come out, so it's a different climate. What certainly helped that argument was the release of comments Goetz made at a 14th street community meeting 18 months before the shooting, at which he stated, “the only way we're going to clean up this street is to get rid of the S words and the N words.” And he did not use S or N. Goetz subsequently filed for bankruptcy because the jury awarded Cabey $43 million dollars. Asked in 2004 whether he was making payments on the judgment, Goetz responded, “I don't think I've paid a penny on that.” He has absolutely no remorse. Today, Bernie lives around the corner from me at Peter Cooper Village at 14th street and First Avenue. I see him feeding his squirrels occasionally.

[15:13] Jessica: Are they his squirrels or he just thinks they're his squirrels?

[15:16] Meg: The city squirrels are his squirrels. He's adopted them. He is a squirrel advocate. He is a vegetarian and marijuana activist as well. And he spends his time nursing injured squirrels around New York. I’m not making it up. It's actually true. He's very pro-squirrel.

[15:37] Jessica: Hold on, I need a minute. So this horror show of a human, isn't it interesting, though, sometimes that really does happen, that total sociopaths connect with animals because they're pure, maybe, and not the scum of the earth.

[15:57] Meg: They also don't know what he did. They don't judge.

[16:01] Jessica: Oh, that's right. They'll talk to him. Didn't you tell me that he nurses them?

[16:10] Meg: He nurses.

[16:10] Jessica: He nurses them and he feeds them, you said? Yeah. What is he?

[16:17] Meg: Actually have you ever seen an injured squirrel?

[16:20] Jessica: I'm sure it's pathetic.

[16:22] Meg: It's awful, too, because there's all this rat poison.

[16:26] Jessica: I'm not saying that someone shouldn't save the squirrels. I'm just saying that there's.

[16:32] Meg: He’s got a lot of work saving.

[16:33] Jessica: He's a lot of really bad karma that all the squirrels in the world will never erase. So he feeds them. What does he feed them?

[16:46] Meg: Nuts, what do you think?

[16:49] Jessica: I don't know what you feed a squirrel. How would I know? Give me a break.

[16:57] Meg: I think he feeds them nuts.

[16:59] Jessica: All right.

[17:00] Meg: In May 2020, a New York

[17:05] Jessica: Speaking of nuts. Yes, go ahead.

[17:07] Meg: A New York Post journalist ran into him at Union Square. Maskless. Not a good time to be maskless, May 2020. He claimed New York's War on the Coronavirus is bullshit.

[17:25] Jessica: He's got a real turn of phrase, that Bernie.

[17:27] Meg: And he said “Most everybody's brainwashed about that.” Oh, my God, he said, as he toted a big bag of peanuts around looking for squirrels. I told you it was nuts. When it was pointed out to him that those lockdown measures are resulting in fewer deaths and hospitalizations, he scoffed “That's bullshit about wearing a mask. And the social distancing” Goetz told a New York Post photographer, as squirrels ate peanuts from his hand in the park.

[18:03] Jessica: I visited a friend in Stuyvesant Town, which, as you well know, is next to Peter Cooper.

[18:09] Meg: Yeah.

[18:10] Jessica: And I noticed something weird. So I was walking my dog, and he's very little, so he's scuffling around at the base of a tree, and I look around, and there is a gigantic pile of peanut shells. So I think we could like “Harriet at the Spy” Bernie Goetz by following the peanut shells.

[18:39] Meg: I think I see him, like, every few months, and he looks exactly the same.

[18:45] Jessica: Okay, so back to the original, the opening of this. You said that your perspective now, knowing all of this and everything that happened in the 90s, is vastly different from what you knew as a teenager in the 80s. So what is your recollection of what you knew or thought you knew then or that you heard from adults around you or whatever?

[19:10] Meg: Well, that we needed more protection, and that's not necessarily not true. New York was very scary, and it was very dangerous. And, yes, we needed protection, but not from four teenagers who didn't have a weapon on them. I mean, it was clearly racially motivated.

[19:33] Jessica: Yes. But you know what also just struck me?

[19:36] Meg: What?

[19:38] Jessica: At the time, subway violence wasn't really guns. It was knives.

[19:44] Meg: They didn't have knives.

[19:46] Jessica: No, not these kids. Okay. I'm saying in general, guns were not as commonly used as they are now. So there's so much gun violence, and now when we think about something bad going down in a bad part of the city or whatever, it's automatically you think gun violence.

[20:09] Meg: Okay?

[20:09] Jessica: And at the time, that wasn't the case. My recollection is that it was knives or getting punched out or Yes.

[20:17] Meg: Chain Snatching.

[20:18] Jessica:Yes

[20:19] Meg: That's what I was always scared of.

[20:20] Jessica: Purse snatching.

[20:20] Meg: Purse snatching and chain snatching. Your ear and your earrings. We weren't allowed to wear dangling earrings at school because of the danger of somebody just yanking them out of your ear. That was a thing.

[20:36] Jessica: I remember that. You're absolutely right. The fact that I now think about purse snatching as a simpler time, what I really commenting on yes.

[20:48] Meg: I'm sure there's going to be another great story about subways. This is just the beginning.

[20:51] Jessica: Oh, my god.

[20:52] Meg: Because, actually, I mean, wouldn't it be fun to do a story about just subway graffiti?

[20:56] Jessica: Well, I was just going to say, as the pop culture maven, what I'm so interested in is how graffiti artists rose up and became extremely well known and, you know, in galleries and all.

[21:11] Meg: And the subway was with their canvas.

[21:13] Jessica: Yeah.

[21:15] Meg: Let's put that on the list.

[21:21] Meg: We're back.

[21:21] Jessica: Hi, Meg.

[21:22] Meg: Hi, Jessica. What do you have in store for me today?

[21:26] Jessica: I have a trivia question first. Okay. When you think and by the way, this might seem like it's an open ended question, but there's really only one right answer.

[21:36] Meg: Okay, good to know. No pressure.

[21:37] Jessica: None. When you think of 80s movies, what are the first ones that pop into

[21:44] Meg: John Hughes.

[21:45] Jessica: Very good.

[21:45] Meg: Oh, thank you.

[21:46] Jessica: Okay.

[21:46] Meg: I got it right?

[21:46] Jessica: Yes, you did. Now, are you aware of Molly Ringwald, star of many of and admitted, he said, his muse, her comments about her feelings as an adult, looking back on those films and how the messages that they sent.

[22:05] Meg: I read at least one article online about it that made me pleased. Thank you, Molly, for that perspective.

[22:15] Jessica: Okay. Did you like those movies when you were a teenager?

[22:17] Meg: I liked those movies, but I always felt there was a little bit of discomfort. They were a little rapey.

[22:24] Jessica: Okay, and was that basically Molly's commentary?

[22:30] Meg: Yeah. I mean, she didn't use that word, but she referenced, like she was like, I would never do anything like that again.

[22:39] Jessica: Okay, well, Molly Ringwald, step aside, because here come the kids. By kids, I mean 30 year olds who were in a series, a succession of movies in the 80s, primarily from 1981 to 1985, teen sexploitation flicks.

[23:02] Meg: Oh, yeah, that's a whole other brand.

[23:05] Jessica: It is a subset.

[23:06] Meg: Film and cinema.

[23:09] Jessica: Yes. The John Hughes movies were so popular because there really was this feeling of, you know, that they were addressing the emotional problems and the emotional development and real life situations of teenagers sort of wrapped up in a bubble gum kind of fantasy.

[23:29] Meg: They took teenagers. Oh, there's a siren.

[23:34] Jessica: That is proof that we are in New York. Someone just got shot. Okay.

[23:40] Meg: But they took teenagers seriously, and they're growing pain seriously.

[23:46] Jessica: I remember, to my infinite shame, my absolute embarrassment at this point in my life, when The Breakfast Club came out. So that must have been 84, I think. Back then, of course, you only knew about movie listings from the newspaper, and I would scour the newspaper for new movies. I was a total movie crazy person. And I remember waiting for the next whatever it was that I was really excited about and The Breakfast Club, I knew it was coming. On the day it was released, there was a full page ad in the Times that was thrilling alone, like, this huge spread. And I remember getting very worked up and trying to explain to my mother, who just didn't understand. Mom, this is me. This is our generation.

[24:52] Meg: Oh, my God. I cannot imagine your mother responding to that in a way that was productive.

[25:00] Jessica: Well, she did the only thing she could do in that situation, the kindest thing to do, which was to say nothing.

[25:08] Meg: Oh, good on her.

[25:09] Jessica: She said something to the effect of, I don't see it, but I don't doubt that that's how you feel. Is that how you feel? Yes, it really is. Oh, my God. That's John Hughes. But teen sexploitation flicks were not geared toward developing minds.

[25:35] Meg: No.

[25:36] Jessica: They were only about developing bodies. And frankly, because the people they cast as teenagers were frequently 30 year olds, they were not even developing bodies. They were terrifying bodies to see for a young teen being like, ‘Oh, my God, am I supposed to look like that?’ It's like, that's a good 15 years off. You don't have to worry about that stretch mark yet or those implants. You're all right. So anyway, this was a really fascinating phenomenon because it didn't happen before and after the 80s, it completely died out. So the question that this all brings to mind because I remember every single sexploitation flick, all of them. Why, you ask? Because, bizarrely, HBO would show them. I went to the theater to see, like, The Blue Lagoon and Risky Business, but those are in a separate category. Those are more like sexy movies that happen to have teens in them or 20 year olds. So the only place to see it was on HBO. Or maybe that's not true. There are a couple of others that were in the movie theaters that were a little higher profile but what I want to discuss is how bizarre it is looking back, because that's so much of what we talk about here is as adults, looking back on what we took for granted, what we loved, what we sought out, all of that stuff as teens and now being like, what the fuck was that? It was an endless parade of films with exactly the same plot. All of them. The same plot and the same stock characters and the same objectives. There were two of them, okay? Now, the plot was invariably, young guy is a virgin.

[27:49] Meg: Okay. Yes, virgin.

[27:50] Jessica: Young guy desperate to lose his virginity because he has one friend who's a ladies man and shames.

[28:01] Meg: Self proclaimed ladies man.

[28:02] Jessica: Right and then he has, like, a wise cracking friend, like the one in Risky Business who says, “Sometimes, Julie, you've just got to say, what the fuck?” Yeah, right. So you've got the wise crack and friend who's just egging him on. You've got the girl who really loves him, and then the unattainable goddess

[28:24] Meg: Right, who rarely speaks.

[28:26] Jessica: Rarely. Okay? So that's the setup, every single film. Now, the guy might run across this unattainable fantasy woman in a variety of different ways, and that's really the only difference in any of these. It's kind of like Taco Bell, where you're like, isn't that the same thing as a bean burrito? But you're calling it like a bean ‘whatever.’ It's just packaged differently. But it's the Taco Bell of films. I can't even call them films; flicks. So that's the set up, okay? And the objectives were twofold. The first half of the movie was seeing boobs. And there were a lot of boobs to see.

[29:14] Meg: I do remember that, yes.

[29:16] Jessica: And the way that you, again in giant air quotes, screenwriters, got all of those boobs on screen was A. the shower scene or voyeurism, watching sorority girls or girls in private school. Well, there’s through a hole. That's the porky's porky's glory hole method. Which we will discuss shortly, but also, like with binoculars in a tree kind of a situation.

[29:51] Meg: Of course. Peeping toms.

[29:54] Jessica: A lot of boobs. And then it was, are you actually going to have sex with her? And invariably the answer was yes. And then invariably the guy's reaction was, well, it wasn't special.

[30:10] Meg: And maybe the girl next door isn't so hideous.

[30:14] Jessica: Exactly. Gee, Sally Q seems just like a fine girl.

[30:19] Meg: Especially when she takes her glasses off.

[30:21] Jessica: Exactly. Rip off the glasses, shake out your hair. So this is the genre that I find absolutely fabulous and fantastic. And it's part of the 80s in that it's so completely open about its purrants. There's no facade. There's no attempt to make it high brow. It's not like those Emmanuel movies. Remember those? Oh, this Sylvia Crystal. And it was all just an excuse for her to be naked, but they made them into these, like 19th century party, whatever. No, this was the lowest of the low. And they obviously brought in big bucks.

[31:07] Meg: Seriously.

[31:08] Jessica: Because they kept, no pun intended, pumping them out. So before I go into the list of the genuine hardcore sexploitation movies, I'm going to give you a list of movies that some so I did some online research, which is not like me, as you know, but I did a little research and I was shocked.

[31:35] Meg: Did you go to the Microfiche at the library.

[31:36] Jessica: No, I did not go to the microfiche. I opened up my diary from 1984. “Dear Diary. Animal House made me feel funny.” Okay. So I looked this up and there's a whole, there's a list of movies that came out in the 80s that featured sex. And so they're on some lists of teen sexploitation, but they don't fit the category as I've described it. Okay, so remember what the elements are. So the ones that I think are actually good movies in one way or another, either comedically or tackles a tough subject or whatever, are as follows: Animal House.

[32:27] Meg: Yes.

[32:28] Jessica: Brilliant. Hilarious, totally raunchy, but really well written and funny.

[32:33] Meg: It's pretty funny.

[32:35] Jessica: Meatballs.

[32:36] Meg: I don't know if I've ever seen it. Don't yell at me.

[32:41] Jessica: You don't remember Woody the Wabbit. No, I'm heartbroken. Okay, well, it takes place at a summer camp and Bill Murray is the head counselor.

[32:48] Meg: We love Bill Murray.

[32:49] Jessica: I know. I can't understand why you don't know Meatballs, like it's weird.

[32:53] Meg: Billy is really into Bill Murray right now.

[32:55] Jessica: Now, so I'll watch it with there you go. But it's so full of heart. It's so sweet. It's a sweet movie. And I don't think there are any boobs in it at all because the real protagonist is twelve.

[33:09] Meg: Okay.

[33:10] Jessica: Awesome.

[33:10] Meg: Perfect.

[33:11] Jessica: Very sweet. There's Fast Times at Ridgemont High, which we know dark, some boob action, but it's really it's from a, did you ever read the original book by Cameron Crowe?

[33:23] Meg: No.

[33:24] Jessica: It's fantastic.

[33:25] Meg: I don't doubt it.

[33:26] Jessica: I read it before the movie came out. It was one of those, like, “we shouldn't be reading this” books that made the rounds at camp in my bunk, and I would just remember it was really like sad and affecting. And it was the result of his having gone into a Southern California high school undercover as a high school kid and observing a clique of boys and girls who had all of these very real things. So that one. Now also, the performances were so good that it elevated it out of everything and every single actor. Even the really tiny parts went on to become huge. Like Forest Whitaker. What was he doing in there?

[34:15] Meg: That’s true.

[34:16] Jessica: Forest Whitaker. Like everyone thinks of Sean Penn, but it's Anthony Edwards. Eric Stoltz, Forest Whitaker, Phoebe Kates, Jennifer Jason Leigh. It's just, Nicholas Cage. On and on and on. So that can't even be in the category. Then you've got Little Darlings, two girls trying to lose it at summer camp, but you never see anything. And it's really dark and depressing and it's really a commentary on the American class system. That's dark.

[34:46] Meg: Matt Dylan.

[34:48] Jessica: Matt Dylan was so dreamy that it wasn't even normal.

[34:51] Meg: Oh, my God. You know, I actually sat next to him at the Tile Bar once in the 90s.

[34:57] Jessica: On 7th street?

[32:59] Meg: Yeah.

[33:02] Jessica: Oh, my God. Was he just resplendent?

[35:04] Meg: Yes and I was like just stone just sitting next to him at the bar, just totally stone.

[35:09] Jessica: I didn't say it was that sounds like too much. Risky Business, which we've already touched on. And Revenge of the Nerds.

[35:17] Meg: I love that movie.

[35:20] Jessica: Yes. And despite a lot of boobs, it was really about outsiders finding their place.

[35:27] Meg: Also, so funny.

[35:29] Jessica: So funny. And there was a real sweetness to it. And that's that. That's it. That's my list of misnamed. Miscategorized. With that said, I'm now going to read you a list of the true sexploitation.

[35:46] Meg: Oh okay.

[35:46] Jessica: And we're going to see here's another game for you. Can you find a unifying theme?

[35:52] Meg: All right, I will focus.

[35:53] Jessica: And Blue Lagoon, by the way, I put into the not sexploitation category because it was based on a book from 1904, so I can't. That's it. Okay. Starting in 1981 and going through to 1986. Okay, Private Lessons. And I'm going to give you the tagline if I have it. All right, Private Lessons. The bedroom is a fun classroom. Zapped with Scott Baio and Willie Ames of respectively, Happy Days and Eight is Enough fame. The premise was flimsy. The two boys have a failed experiment with mice and growing marijuana as fast as they can. And a lab mishap gives Scott Baio telekinesis, powers of levitation, and the ability to move objects and manipulate them with his mind. Now, you can imagine how many clothes hit the floor exactly because of Scott Beo's very special. Okay, so in no particular order, moving, well chronologically, but going all the way, Porky’s tagline: You'll be glad you came. Last American Virgin: losing it with surprisingly, stars are: Tom Cruise and Shelley Long.

[37:21] Meg: Doing what?

[37:23] Jessica: She is the love interest.

[37:23] Meg: Fascinating.

[37:24] Jessica: I know. And the tagline there is: the last word about the first time. Then we have My Tutor: Schools out, but Bobby's education has just begun. Class with Rob Lowe and Andrew McCarthy and Jacqueline Bessette.

[37:42] Meg: Yes. My favorite.

[37:43] Jessica: What's not to like? Oh, there's Private School for Girls. Phoebe Kate's other big film with Matthew Modine. My Chauffeur.

[37:52] Meg: I loved My Chauffeur.

[37:54] Jessica: You're going to regret saying that because the tagline is; He fell in love with the help. Beverly Hills will never be the same.

[38:04] Meg: She looked adorable in her chauffeur outfit.

[38:06] Jessica: And do you know who played her?

[38:08] Meg: Well, Valley, the girl who was Valley Girl?

[38:10] Jessica: The girl from Valley Girl whose name is Deborah Foreman.

[38:12] Meg: Thank you.

[38:13] Jessica: But do you know who the love interest was? The guy.

[38:16] Meg: No

[38:17] Jessica: Now, cast your mind back to 1980. It was the guy who played Flash Gordon in Flash Gordon.

[38:25] Meg: I think I was just focused on her. She's so pretty.

[38:27] Jessica: Sam Jones. He was six five with, like, this insane like, it was like Dolph Lundgren being the love interest. It was bananas. Yeah. There were some definite social issues there. Also fun to know is that My Tutor featured Matt Lattanzi, who was very tasty and married to Olivia Newton John.

[38:51] Meg: at the time?

[38:52] Jessica: Shortly thereafter.

[38:53] Meg: Interesting.

[38:54] Jessica: Yes. What are you seeing as the unifying theme here?

[38:58] Meg: Well, I feel like I'm being redundant, but it's boys losing their virginity to older women.

[39:05] Jessica: Yes, to older women. And it's this bizarre mixture of the boys being aggressive and then being completely submissive when they get this older, unattainable whatever.

[39:19] Meg: You don't have to do anything. I'll take care of it.

[39:22] Jessica: I'll teach you.

[39:23] Meg: I'll teach you.

[39:24] Jessica: Yeah.

[39:26] Meg: And that's the ultimate fantasy? Who knew?

[39:29] Jessica: I guess. So what I'm saying is, think about this. Think about Gen X. This is our generation. Do you think that this imprinted, these sexual proclivities or dementia of guys our age, is that?

[39:41] Meg: We need to have some guests on, to ask that question? Because I cannot answer that.

[39:48] Jessica: I know. I've never asked anyone this question before. Maybe it is time to take a survey and time to get some guys.

[39:56] Meg: Let’s do a little survey. Let's do a little like.

[39:59] Jessica: We’re just going to accost people in the street. We have a bag of peanuts or a questionnaire. Which one do you want?

[40:06] Meg: We have some friends who are men our age. We can certainly ask a bunch of people.

[40:12] Jessica: Yes, we certainly can. So, yes, the unifying theme is exactly what you just said, but it's also, the women never had a character description. They were an entity.

[40:26] Meg: Mom

[40:27] Jessica: Mom?

[40:28] Meg: Well, yeah, in the Rob Lowe.

[40:30] Jessica: Well, that one I'm just saying, all of them. The woman didn't really have a personality. She wasn't given. she wasn't written into the script very well.

[40:38] Meg: That's what I mean, that she had a title rather than a character.

[40:44] Jessica: Yes, I know. So you're speaking as an actor here, I wasn't hip to the lingo. And this is just I'm giving this all this list so people can look them up themselves.

[40:56] Meg: Okay.

[40:56] Jessica: Blame it on Rio from 1984. The tagline was: She's the hottest thing on the beach, and she's his best friend's daughter. Right. So now we're veering into my other topic, which will have to be for another day, which is back to Molly Ringwald and her rapiness, because there was a lot of that. Do you know who played the lecherous older man in that film?

[41:21] Meg: I do not.

[41:22] Jessica: Michael Cane.

[41:23]Meg: Oh, no. Michael. That does kind of sound familiar.

[41:25] Jessica: And the following Loose Screws with the tagline: More fun than you can shake your stick at. Yes. So, anyway, there's a lot of social.

[41:42] Meg: Have to do sexploitation part two.

[41:45] Jessica: Yeah, there are a lot of social ills evident in there, but in a way, it's kind of like, do we like them more or less than the insidious John Hughes movies? Because they were just what they were.

[42:01] Meg: I don't know if I can compare. Actually, I will say I like them less. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say if there isn't a story or good actors to have it all hang together.

[42:20] Jessica: Okay. Was that a bull mo right there? Yes, I see your point. I'm still caught on the horns of a dilemma. I don't know the answer to this yet.

[42:35] Meg: I mean, there were plenty of sexy movies that were actually well written. The Sure Thing, for example.

[42:42] Jessica: Were there boobs in there?

[42:44] Meg: No, I'm sorry, there were no boobs. Sorry to disappoint you.

[42:46] Jessica: That doesn't do it.

[42:48] Meg: But it was a guy trying to lose his virginity.

[42:50] Jessica: Yes, that that is entirely accurate. But yeah. Okay, I see your point. What we’ll save further investigation for sexploitation teen flicks parts. And that's it for desperately Seeking the 80s. Meg, are you happy with how things went?

[43:09] Meg: Yeah, I had a lot of fun today, and I hope that people will start rating us and reviewing us on the Apple podcast.

[43:23] Jessica: Favorably. Yes, that was my attempt at subliminal advertising.

[43:28] Meg: It would really, really help us grow our podcast.

[43:33] Jessica: So, in advance, thank you, good night and good luck.